I just about died laughing when we stopped tonight to take a picture of this château and noticed that the windows were all fogged up in the car seen in the bottom of the picture. I don't think I've ever seen French kids "parking" before...probably because they can't drive (unaccompanied anyways) until the age of 18, and it's fairly rare to get your own car anyways that early on.
Good for them though - how many kids can say they've made out in front of a deserted castle??
A few months ago, Aimee** over at PutYourFlareOn introduced me to the concept of the Joliebox. What is this box that you speak of, you ask? Apparently it's a concept called Birchbox started in the US by two Harvard students, and it has now been adopted by a French company under the name of Joliebox.
Le principe est simple - each month, they send you a cute little box containing 5-6 beauty products. Sometimes they're new products that have just been released and other times they're old favorites (Burts Bees chapstick ou L'Occitane hand cream). The sizes vary too, but they are usually bigger than sample sizes - ie more like travel size cosmetics, which is great if you are on the road a lot like I am. They also sometimes give whole sizes too - last month I got a gigantic tube of cocoa butter lotion and this month I got several full-size products including a foundation, a shower gel and a red nail polish. You can also set your preferences for certain things - for example, perfumes often make me sneeze, so I checked that I would rather have facial products instead of perfumes.
Mostly though I just enjoy the fun of being able to try out so many new beauty products, especially since make-up is usually so costly in France. Which reminds me, I didn't mention the price - it's 10€ a month including shipping. They have one month, three month, six month or year-long subscriptions. C got me a 12mo for Christmas and it has been awesome - it's like the gift that keeps on giving all year long. I'm not sure if there are too many guys out there who read my blog, but hey, if you're stuck for a Valentine's day gift, this could be a good one! They are also rolling out a JoliMonsieur edition next month. :)
**Also, just wanted to give a little plug for Aimee's cute tea house in the 13th - if you haven't been yet, check it out, she makes the best desserts! It's also a great place to buy yarn for you knitters out there.
I wasn't originally planning on writing about this topic at all,
because 1) I don't have kids and 2) It just seemed like another one of
those "X country does Y thing better" books. But then I saw an interview
with the author on the Today Show, and it kind of irked me. They
filmed her in Paris, wearing a beret of course. She talks about how
French parents have a well-defined "box" of rules, but that there is
freedom inside that box. They show her kids eating broccoli and she of
course takes credit for this - whereas my first thought was whatever
lady - that ain't thanks to you, that's thanks to the French school
lunch system. Kids here learn to eat a wide variety of foods from a very
young age. And then she shows up live on the Today Show (again with the damn beret!) to expound on her previous statements.
As an interesting side note - in the US, this book is called "Bringing Up Bébé", whereas in the UK, it's called "French Children Don't Throw Food".
I find it really interesting that they felt the need to change the name
for the British market. But then again, ever since I moved to France,
all I have heard from the Brits is how well-behaved French children
are.
I've always wondered where that myth comes from. I mean, sure
maybe the French children of 50 years ago were meant to be seen and not
heard, but in my experience, after living in France for coming up on 9
years now, that is definitely not the case. I've taught in the French
school system and been around plenty of children in Fab's family and now
in C's family, and frankly, I don't understand what the big fuss is
about. The kids just seem like normal kids. Sometimes they're good and
sweet and sometimes they scream, whine and throw fits.
And
hey, if all French kids are so perfect, why would M6 need to have a
SuperNanny show? It was extremely popular, and ran for six years - and
would probably still be on today if the SuperNanny hadn't passed away in
2010. I watched some of them, and man, did some of those kids need an
attitude adjustment.
I also found it extremely ironic that she said that French
parents insisted their children always say "Hello" to others, as a way
to pull them out of their self-centeredness and remind them that others
have needs too. This literally made me laugh out loud. If that were
indeed the case, they would also be reminding their kids to hold the
doors for others, to not stand in the middle of the
sidewalk/doorway/escalators and to not stare. But none of that happens -
France is not a "Put yourself in someone else's shoes" society. And
before anyone starts on me for criticizing France, it's not a criticism,
it's the way people are raised here. If anything, they are teaching
their kids to say "Hello" because it's a cultural expectation and you're
setting yourself up for a lifetime of non-service if you don't start
every sentence with "Bonjour".
She also brings up the example of a child interrupting a parent.
She says that Americans think that there is nothing that they can do
about a child interrupting and so they just have to live with it. Um
hello? (or should that be Bonjour?). I grew up with my mother telling
me all the time to stop interrupting and wait until her conversation was
done. This lady just seems like her parenting skills weren't that
great to start off with. She says however that a French parent will
take the time to gently explain the child needs to wait. I don't know
about you guys, but this has not been my experience at all. I've mainly
seen the kids saying "Maman. Maman. Maman. Mamaaaaannnnn" with
increasing urgency, all the while the parent is ignoring them until the
explode and say "Come on Quentin, stop being so annoying, can't you see
that I'm talking?". And then the kid sulks away, pouting.
Which brings me to the whole yelling factor. That is one of the
biggest differences I have noticed in child-adult interactions here. So
much of it seems to be adults yelling at the children and belittling
them into submission. Not that I think the kids suffer from it, just
that it is not seen as necessarily a bad thing to call a child stupid or
tell them they asked a dumb question.
In fact, I found
this whole idea of "French parents are calm" so ridiculous that I posted
it on twitter. Here are some of the answers I got back:
ChezLoulou: Oh r-e-a-l-l-y? Then why is that I hear French parents yelling at their kids all the time? Ella: Lol! She should spend a weekend at MF's family's house and she'd write a whole other book! Where is she getting her facts? Ashley: ugh. Read lots of things about that book. Sound like a complete over generalization of one population. yuck. AnnMah: Ha ha. I think this is the newest "X parenting is superior." But that it's French, does make me laugh.
KarenLeBillon: French aren't perfect, but DO have gr8 approach to #kidsfood. See amazing French school menus! bit.ly/xrcoDm
There were a few detractors however: TheBoldSoul: I think they do it less than American parents, frankly. And the French little ones ARE generally better behaved in public Ednacz: I think they do it less than American parents, frankly. And the French little ones ARE generally better behaved in public
So that leads me to believe that there are both well-behaved and
misbehaved kids here, just as there are in every other country in the
world. But I thought I'd put together a little quiz to see what the rest
of you think:
Update - It's also crazy that she has removed her past books from her website, including the one on infidelity. According to a commenter below, she also asked Marie Claire to remove her article on how she gave her husband a threesome for his 40th birthday. And we're supposed to take parenting advice from this lady??
I wanted to give a little bit of publicity for a great organic store C & I came across a few months ago. It's called Bio C' Bon, and they have twelve different locations in the Paris metro area (and one in Aix too).
Once a month or so, when I know I won't be traveling for several days, we head over there and pick up one of their "paniers bio". For a while now, I'd been wanting to sign up for one of these with one of the local Amaps, but they always seemed so inflexible - ie either you needed to pick it up on a certain day at a certain time, or it was hard to cancel if you were going out of town. It just didn't seem to ever work out with my travel schedule, plus it'd be a lot for C to eat the weeks I was gone.
Whereas with Bio C' Bon, the paniers are available every day of the week at any of their locations. The selection of fruits and vegetables changes every Tuesday, and I also find their prices a lot more reasonable than with the weekly ones (10€ for a minimum of 4kg).
This week's panier had three leeks, a big head of lettuce, 5 zucchinis, 8 carrots, 8 potatoes, 5 pears, 3 big apples and 10 clementines. I don't know what you guys think, but that seems like a great deal to me for organic fruits and veggies - I think even cheaper than what I would pay at the local marché. Plus it's been fun for us to hunt around together for recipes to use everything up.
What's great with this store too is that if ever there's something you don't like, you can substitute it for something else (in this case, we substituted 3 gigantic oranges for the clementines). Or a different time, I needed extra leeks for a recipe I was making, so they let me swap the onions for a few more leeks. The employees are all very friendly and you can tell they actually care about what they're doing - which as we all know can be rare here.
In addition to the panier, they are also a regular organic grocery store, with other produce, meats, dairy products and all kinds of dry goods. I've taken to buying quinoa and other grains in bulk there because the prices are so good. They also have a pretty good range of gluten-free and other specialty products, but those are a bit pricier.
Update: In case anyone was wondering what we did with our panier:
1 apple, 2 pears and the clementines were all afternoon snacks
The lettuce ended up being a dinner salad for us for 5 meals
5 of the potatoes and 3 of the carrots were roasted with a whole chicken
I made chicken broth with the carcass and then used that plus the rest of the potatoes & the 3 leeks to make a soup.
I shredded 3 of the zucchinis and 3 of the carrots for a veggie risotto that were served with the chicken legs from the previous night.
The two remaining zucchinis and carrots were diced and used with the left-over chicken bits to make a pasta dish.
The last three pears were used for a poached pear dessert
The remaining two apples were used for an apple crisp
So with all of the leftovers, it ended up being enough for a week's worth of lunches and dinners. It's actually pretty economical when you think about it - everything else we needed (rice, olive oil, flour, etc), we already had on hand at home, so the only thing we needed to purchase was the chicken and a bag of onions, making a total of 15€ a week for the two of us. Pas trop mal for Paris, huh?
Okay, here are the answers- how did you all do? Did you make the 60% mark? (9 or more correct)
Overall, I thought the questions were pretty basic and not too bad - ie if you have general knowledge of France, you should be able to pass the test without too much worry. The rest of the sample tests were also along these same lines, so hopefully this will reassure those of you who plan on applying soon. Plus I'm sure someone will come out with a study guide soon enough too.
1) Who constructed Versailles?
Napoleon
Louis XIV
Louis-Philippe
2) Who do you associate with the Arc de Triomphe?
Napoleon
General Charles de Gaulle
Julius Cesar
3) Gothic cathedrals were built during which historical period?
The Middle Ages
The French Revolution
Ancient history
4) When were the castles of the Loire built?
The 20th century
The Renaissance
The French Revolution
5) Before it was destroyed, what was the Bastille?
A hotel
A prison
A theater
6) When did the Hundred Years’ War take place?
In the Middle Ages
Under Louis XIV
In 1914
7) The battle of Verdun occurred during which war?
The Algerian War
WWI
WWII
8) The Eiffel Tower was built :
For the World’s Fair in 1889
To attract tourists
To install a television antenna
9) The Paris Mosque was inaugurated:
Before the French Revolution
Between WWI and WWII
Last year
10) When did WWI take place?
Between 1914 and 1918
Between 1946 and 1962
Between 1720 and 1723
11) The religious wars in the 16th century were between:
Catholics and Protestants
Christians and Muslims
Public and private schools
12) General de Gaulle’s speech calling for French resistance happened:
In the context of WWII
In the context of the war against the English
During the events of May 1968
13) Which of these three men was not president?
Valéry Giscard d’Estaing
François Mitterrand
Victor Hugo
14) The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen is associated with what
event?
The liberation of Paris
The French Revolution
The creation of Europe
15) Joan of Arc lived during which historical period?
Thanks so much to everyone for sharing their comments and opinions on Thursday's post, Ii really enjoyed reading them. No wonder this is such a hot topic, both in France and around the world.
Here is one of the sample citizenship tests Le Figaro published earlier in the week,
and thankfully they don't look much more complicated than the American one. Apparently the goal is that the
candidates should have (if I remember right), the history and cultural
knowledge of a French fifth grader. Right now they are saying the test
will contain 10 multiple choice questions, with a score of 6/10 or
higher necessary to pass. Let's see how you do - I'll post the answers
tomorrow!
1) Who constructed Versailles?
Napoleon
Louis XIV
Louis-Philippe
2) Who do you associate with the Arc de Triomphe?
Napoleon
General Charles de Gaulle
Julius Cesar
3) Gothic cathedrals were built during which historical period?
The Middle Ages
The French Revolution
Ancient history
4) When were the castles of the Loire built?
The 20th century
The Renaissance
The French Revolution
5) Before it was destroyed, what was the Bastille?
A hotel
A prison
A theater
6) When did the Hundred Years’ War take place?
In the Middle Ages
Under Louis XIV
In 1914
7) The battle of Verdun occurred during which war?
The Algerian War
WWI
WWII
8) The Eiffel Tower was built :
For the World’s Fair in 1889
To attract tourists
To install a television antenna
9) The Paris Mosque was inaugurated:
Before the French Revolution
Between WWI and WWII
Last year
10) When did WWI take place?
Between 1914 and 1918
Between 1946 and 1962
Between 1720 and 1723
11) The religious wars in the 16th century were between:
Catholics and Protestants
Christians and Muslims
Public and private schools
12) General de Gaulle’s speech calling for French resistance happened:
In the context of WWII
In the context of the war against the English
During the events of May 1968
13) Which of these three men was not president?
Valéry Giscard d’Estaing
François Mitterrand
Victor Hugo
14) The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen is associated with what
event?
The liberation of Paris
The French Revolution
The creation of Europe
15) Joan of Arc lived during which historical period?
There's been all kinds of hubbub on FB and twitter lately about the new rules for applying for French citizenship, including the history test that future candidates will have to take starting in July 2012.
I understand that these new rules scare people, but on the other hand, I sort of think it's normal that someone getting French citizenship should have a decent level of French and have at least some notion of France's past. We'd expect exactly the same back home for someone wanting to become American, so I'm really confused why Americans here think those rules shouldn't apply to them in France too.
I have to agree with the new decree that "becoming French is not merely an administrative step - it's a decision that requires a lot of thought". My mother recently became a Finnish citizen, and I actually don't really agree with it. She was only able to get it because my grandmother had to give her citizenship up years ago in order to become American. So they had a short window where those people could get it back, and so could their children. But my mother has never lived in Finland. Sure, we go there every few years and we celebrate Finnish holidays, but she knows very little about what is actually going on in Finland at this moment. Yet last week she was able to take her new passport and vote in the Finnish presidential election. Doesn't really seem right to me.
But then again, this is a topic I'm very passionate about. Some of you might remember a huge post I did a few years back on my old blog about the differences between French and American immigration policies. Unfortunately I can't find it now though, so I'll try to sum it up here.
Basically, during the high days of immigration (usually timed after major wars = loss of much of the country's young men), there were two ways of going about bringing these people in. One was the Anglo way of accepting their immigrants with open arms, letting them keep their own culture and language and turning it all into one big melting pot.
The French however had already gone through this. They had already spent several hundred years trying to integrate various regions of people to unite France as one. This meant breaking them all of their habits, their culture, their language, etc, until they all ate, spoke and breathed French. Much of this can be credited to Jules Ferry, who made school mandatory and free for all children. He realized that this was the only way they could take all of these immigrant children and literally make them French.
The effects of this can still be seen today in the French school system,
ie their use of rote learning and "the teacher is always right". All of those kids grew up thinking there was only one right answer to anything (leaving no room for critical thinking) and to fear their superiors - en gros, he was grooming an army of fonctionnaires. Haven't we all ran into a fonctionnaire who just shrugged in the face of an inane rule? It's highly likely that they were just doing what they were told and had never actually thought about whether or not it made sense. It's what they're bred to do.
This method actually worked very into the late 60's/early 70's. Up until that point, immigrants were forced to integrate into French society, living amongst the français de souche. But all of the sudden there was a huge influx of Maghrébins looking for work and the government decided it was a good idea to stick them all in high rises outside of the city. This was where they went wrong - these immigrants were no longer forced to adapt to French life. Instead, they congregated amongst themselves in these cités, continuing to speak their own language and guard their culture. In return, the French population blamed them for it and criticized them for their so-called "refusal" to integrate. And the fight has been going on ever since.
I can't help feel bad for the young people who live there - they are usually born and raised in France, yet because they have foreign names & a different skin color, they get told to go "home". Oftentimes these kids have never even been to their parents' country of origin and many don't even speak the language. Can you imagine how that would feel? No wonder they rise up and riot every once in a while, just to make their voice heard.
Anyways, now I'm getting off-track - but all of this is why the discussion of French identity and what it means to be French is such a hot topic, especially with the Americanization of the world that seems to be taking place (even in France). I get why they are fighting to avoid that and to maintain their identity. Look at what it even means to be American? Besides some general notions of "freedom", it actually doesn't mean anything at all.
I remember back to my early days in France, which is really the first time I was exposed to Americans who had grown up outside of the midwest. I remember being shocked when talking about how different our childhoods had been - our Scandinavian traditions versus a friend who'd grown up in an Italian-American family in NYC versus another friend who had grown up with Chinese traditions in California. There was zero consistency between the three, yet we were all American. And yes, that cultural diversity is also one of the great things about our country, but France's strong identity also makes France what it is, and I support their efforts to not dilute it.
I was planning on publishing one of the sample tests here, but I've been long-winded as usual, so I'll have to put it in another post. Stay tuned!
Some things are the same worldwide
How do you know they were kids? Perhaps they were an older, married couple trying to spice it up a little. Or an illicit affair?
Cuz we saw them through the (less-fogged up) front window.
Yeah, French teenagers will never know the fun of making out in a car. That said, they LOVE Wednesday afternoons: no school+parents at work = bring the boyfriend home. I speak from experience ;-(.
Ah, to never know the feeling of horror as a policeman taps on the fogged up window and the mad scramble to put yourself together. Those poor french kids!
Love this story and there is nothing like the first-hand experience (Paris Chronicles)... I think that Delana has a little first-hand recollections as well, hehehe.
Great capture AND story!
Bises, Genie
La Joliebox
Thankyou! Thankyou! Thankyou! I've been wondering for awhile if something like the Birch Box existed in France. Now that I've found it, I'm on the prowl for a Euro/French version of BeachMint.
What a great gift idea. I like that there will be a men's version soon. Will def. check it out!
Beauty products give me girlgasms.
:)
Thanks for the heads up - I've signed up. Let the pampering begin!
Great place to meet old men and babies as well.
Thanks for the linky love, Sam! :) I love Jolie box and I think I might sign Julien up. He likes facial products like a good French man does.
Thank you for the great tip! It's like an organic vegetable panier, but with makeup :)
Bringing up Crazy
I didn't see the Today show bit, but I did see a photo of the author somewhere. WHY THE BERET?! Why, why, why? UGH.
I have also seen newspaper articles etc. on this with some scepticism. However, I try to avoid kids as much as possible, so I don't know that I'm an expert. I will say French kids seem to be quieter/better behaved *in public* than in some other countries, but I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Just yesterday a colleague was going on about how awful his kid was and how it was lucky he was the second kid (otherwise he might have stopped at one)!!
I assume the UK title is trying to piggyback off the success of "French women don't get fat"
As I write this, the little monster in the apartment below us is screaming (again) and the Mom is yelling back. And these are the people who complained about my dog barking...
I tend not to pay attention to these kinds of articles because, as you said, they are usually just a gross generalization. There are good kids and bad kids everywhere in the world, and there are so many other factors that come into raising children other than simply if the child happens to have French parents or not.
Whenever Max brings up the question of having kids, I always just smile and say, "Honey, you see what I did to the dog. Do you really want to have a human child with me?" lol
The beret part made me gag.
Whenever someone starts generalizing, they are asking for trouble. I read about this book in the Washington post and red signal flags went up...I'd forgotten about Super Nanny. Now that's a good example of misbehaved French children! Raising polite children requires good parenting plus a little luck...not all kids are the same, no matter how you parent them, some will be rebels and throw their broccoli at you :)
French women don't get fat and are the BEST mothers! Linda
This book also irked me.
My children (2 & 3 years old) are very well behaved. And broccoli is one of their favorite foods. In general, all of my friends here in the US also have very well behaved children. As did my friends in Switzerland.
I think that the poorly behaved children are more obvious and get far more complaints. And they happen in every country.
The beret was ridiculous, and I just wondered when she'd whip out a baguette!
She made me cringe as well! I'm bringing up bébé here in France now and trust me the techniques that I "hear" from my neighbor Yelling parent Crying child are not exactly winning it for me...In public they are the "perfect" family...behind closed doors...YIKES! I think in the school system and parenting that yelling and berating is how they get the kids to behave NOT through calm love as she describes it. I worked in elementary schools as well so I've seen it first hand. The beret made me want to vomit...bleh! Nobody wears berets here!
You're spot on, Sam. Do you remember me talking about the fiasco I had at Christmas because I snapped at my nephew to get his feet off the dinner table? ... I think that says it all right there. I've seen them hit their children, spank/smack/whack/you name it more times than I can count, and I see lots and lots of misbehavior and disrespect. I hesitated for a long time before agreeing to have a baby in this country and luckily for me, J wants to move to the US in the future so that V has a better chance of growing up creative and open minded (J's words!) He thinks we give kids more opportunity in America, and that we have more confidence. I might just be bitter though cause I got called a C-word by one of my students this week.. you know, one of those well-behaved French students that was a well-behaved French child too, I'm sure.
I think French people are more likely to tell their children "no." There's less negotiation here than in the UK, where middle-class parents are endlessly bribing kids into good behaviour.
I also think the French are more likely to discipline other people's kids and not take offence if someone does it to theirs. I like that, because it shows an expectation of respect for other people in general and actually makes it easier on the parents because there is less of a burden on them - it's just accepted that children do misbehave but that everybody can teach them not to. (Amber, I read your post about the feet on the table incident and was pretty shocked - goes to show that all of this is definitely sweeping generalisation!)
What's funny though, is I think all this makes very little difference to how the kids actually turn out. I lived in Italy, where parenting is really different, and people don't grow up any better or worse behaved there in the end. I reckon it has a lot more to do with how adults in a particular culture feel comfortable dealing with the way children, the world over, all behave. And yeah, no need to go on telltale wearing a beret to talk about it!
Finally some sense on this issue! http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/who-says-american-parents-are-inferior/
This is really funny. You totally had me at the "(or should that be Bonjour?)"
I'm an American mom in Italy and so I don't know about the French kids, but I agree that kids are kids and they are different. Meredith totally hit the nail on the head. It is both nature and nurture.
I will say that the kids here have to say "Buongiorno" or "Ciao" here too and it is VERY important to greet people. Saying "please" and holding doors are not as important as they are in the US.
As for the "Mamma Mamma Mamma Mammmmmmmaaaa" I did not get this until I had children, but there is a point at which you stop hearing it. I swear. It does not register. You are just trying to get your shit done and your kid is screaming for you but you seriously block it out until the person you are talking to winces. It must be a survival instinct.
Ahahahaha...a beret!? Stop! I just googled The Today Show bit and can't find it, I need to see this!
Oh and Séb's 15 year old brother called me "débile ou quoi?" at the dinner table last weekend because I made the mistake of using the masculine article for a noun when it is feminine.
Darling little angels.
And I don't know about anyone else but I find the name "Bringing up Bébe" really irritating...
I remember being really shocked at how many times I saw French mothers hit their children in public, or like you mentioned, called them stupid or some other degrading name. I don't know much about parenting in any culture, but from what I observed I don't think French is any better at it than Americans, and in some aspects they're a lot worse.
I'm fixing to write up my own post about Druckerman's book, which joins the kilometers of other fluff pieces, such as Elizabeth Bard's Lunch in Paris, Kim Sunee's Trail of Crumbs and Sarah Turnbull's Almost French. These "writers" who see France uniquely through their own priviledged lens really get under my skin. Not every American arrives in Paris and marries a wealthy white guy 5 minutes later and goes on to live a life free from finanical worry. Druckerman concentrates uniquely on her and her husband's socio-economic class and their peer group (as do the other "writers") and it is all just so boringly haughty.
Where are the books about raising kids in the 93 or another part of Paris with a higher criminal deliquancy rate? THOSE ARE FRENCH PARENTS TOO! But no female expat author, with the exception of Beth Epstein, looks outside her own world.
The best thing? Druckerman insisted that Marie Claire pull off their website the "little article about the threesome" she arranged a couple of years ago for herself and her husband. She feared it would hurt her book sales if readers found out that she might not be the "reference point" as an Expert Parent should they stumble across her bit of soft-core porn.
Too bad you can't hide in cyberspace!
Wow, I had no idea she'd written an article about threesomes - I found a copy of it online here: http://www.edsaintsimon.com/fichiers/infidele-Marie-claire.pdf?id=infidele-Marie-claire.pdf
No wonder she wanted it removed before the book launch!
I agree with you, Sam, on everything except the yelling. I have seen American parents and French parents yelling at their kids a lot. Hell, I yell at my kids. Parents yell, kids yell. What the hell? It happens.
I haven't see the Today show spot but I can imagine it. How cliche. and a beret? Seriously?
Being a an American raising my kids in France I have never once thought about how do parent my kids. I just follow my instincts. This is the best advice my father gave me right before I had Maximilien and I follow it everyday. Instincts are proper to each parent and are not cultural. But this is way too simple of advice and people are always looking for things to argue about. Like to breastfeed or bottle feed? Seriously, one culture's parenting style vs another? is this really relevant? Parents should be helping each other. Articles like this just set us up against each other. So over it...
TOTALLY agree with you on this - several friends have asked me about this since the book came out. I have lived here for 14 years, have two children in the French school system and know plenty of French parents - they don't have "the answer" to raising little angels any more than Americans do.
Did this woman never hear of the "enfant roi"?? It's a French concept mentioned in many a cultural book.
Ri.Dic.U.Lous.
I'm with you. It's more about the systems and less about the parents. If the school system provides fresh vegetables to young kids of course they are going to grow up with better eating habits than their American counterparts.
I just read French Children don't throw food in the Local French news in English. Photo of the author, NO BERET! Now, about this three sum, naww forget it.
I read the book and liked it. Well-written, well researched and very funny. Druckerman makes clear she is conflicted about following Fr parenting techniques with her own kids. Plus she notes she is referencing a small segment of French society. Interesting too that the US army has about 800 crech-style preschools available for army children. Some idiot PR publishing person insisted on those berets I'll bet.
I think I'm out of the loop because I hadn't even heard of these books, but I can attest to the fact that French children are NOT better behaved than other kids. I was a nanny here for a year a number of years ago and I now have a niece and nephew who always interrupt and never listen to their parents (but admittedly eat better than my Canadian niece and nephew!). I think that the comment on yelling is also valid. How many times have I heard French parents yelling "you never listen to me!" which is just reinforcing the concept, in my opinion. Yelling just seems to be a way of being that I notice with parents and their kids as well as coworkers and friends just expressing their opinions or feelings. It stresses this low-key, West Coast girl out! Can we all just lower our voices a tad?
I suspect a lot of books like these are written to obtain a book deal, and cleverly marketed to incite debate and sales. Why else would the WSJ excerpt have been titled "Why French parents are superior?" I haven't looked at the NYT list this week, but I bet it's working.
That sounds really good, and sensible too that you can swap the contents for what you will use
Thanks for mentioning this. I love to buy bio but the prices are getting to be outrageous so this should be a better option for me.
This is an awesome discovery! I have to check one of the stores out.
i was hoping that chicken and the potatoes and the leeks would wind up making beautiful music together. num.
I, too, had hesitated to take out a subscription to one of those bio services; it just seemed too constraining.
But I see there are a couple of these places in the 15th! I'll check them out.
Thanks for the info.
French citizenship changes, part III
13/15! I'm pretty happy with that.
Perfect score :) My French History professors would be oh-so-proud.
I only missed two. Can I be a French citizen?
14. I look forward to my carte de sejour arriving in the mail. (Don't think as a Kiwi I'd ever get citizenship! Lol.)
only one i didnt know was the one about the mosque....prob a reflection of our western history books
there used to be a lot more bloggers writing about life in france than there are now. it's nice to read these frenchie posts, thank you.
13/15! I passed! Can I be a French citizen now?
I gave it to the boys (French, ages 10 & 13) and they didn't do too badly! They only got a couple wrong. They especially loved the question that had Victor Hugo as an answer.
13/15! Pas mal, considering I only lived there 1 year.
I missed the previous post but these seem like pretty typical history questions. Anyone who studied (and rememebers) European history from high school should be able to get at least half of those!
13/15 here, like some of the other posters. But I got my French citizenship 7 years ago, so I'm good either way!
French citizenship changes, part II
I don't want to sound arrogant, but those are kind of ridiculously easy, although perhaps another subtle way of favouring those who grew up with a Western-style education since you might learn a lot of that information as a side-effect of learning about English history or the world wars from a NZ or American perspective etc. and maybe be less likely to learn it if you're from Africa or Asia etc.
In the car tonight J kept saying they'll probably ask me about Francis Cabrel in order to become a citizen, and said I'd fail since I don't really care for that style of French music. I gave him some of the examples you listed here and we had a good laugh. He was shocked that they wouldn't ask for any specific dates since memorizing things is so popular here.
French citizenship changes
Just on the part about your Mum - I'm a British citizen by descent, and i wouldn't agree that I don't have a right to that (that's simplifying what you said, I know).
I understand your point about your Mum not having any connection to Finland, but it makes sense to me that I should be able to have citizenship in a country where my ancestors have lived since god knows when, where my parents have paid taxes, where members of my family still live, and to which (in my case) I do feel a cultural connection. I don't know that that's any less valid than someone just deciding to move to a place (simplfying, again, obviously).
My parents chose to move somewhere else, but I think it's a great thing that I have the option to go back if I choose - and my sister, in fact, has lived in London for years.
I wonder if you would feel the same if you were on the other side of that argument. I don't TOTALLY disagree with the rule change but I don't really agree with what you're saying here. Historically, the reason people were allowed to become citizens due to their relatives was in order to keep French blood lines alive. What is so different now? As for knowing the history portion of our citizenship test, all the reports of this on the American side (of which you made comparison) are that "knowing American history" is a gross exaggeration of the actual test. What you are actually expected to know about U.S. History in order to become a citizen is anything a 1st grader might glean from songs they learned about our country. That's not history, it's trivia.
I have to agree with Gwan here and say that I don't see how people who have ancestors in the country have any less of a right than you - having simply chosen to move to and live in France. What makes you different? Perhaps you personally are interested in French culture and language but there are many who have your same status who could give a rats ass.
Unfortunately for France it is rules like these that are going to lead to their eventual decline as a society. The fact is that if you don't have enough babies to keep the bloodlines alive you have to build it from the immigrants. It's basic anthropology. Elitism is bad for the growth of a people. Period.
I completely agree with everything you've said, although for my own sake (I'm up for citizenship availability in 2015), I hope that the fonctionnaires don't just arbitrarily refuse people. It shouldn't be prohibitively hard to get a visa to study or work in a country, in my opinion, but becoming a citizen of a country is a whole different ballgame.
I totally agree too that "becoming French is not merely an administrative step - it's a decision that requires a lot of thought"---it's just that all the people I know who've become French already feel that way, so the whole discourse feels condescending to me. I love France, of course I wouldn't take becoming French lightly! But then, I love languages, and I like history, so the thought of passing a French test + a history test doesn't freak me out that much.
But I don't agree that being American doesn't mean anything. Of course we all have a right to our own interpretations of our national heritage, but just because it's a young country of immigrants doesn't mean there's nothing to it.
I think it's important not to forget that all countries are made up of immigrants, not just the United States. Look at all the diversity in the last names of French people. I had a student once whose last name was "Lallemand." I mean seriously! It can be reassuring to think that Frenchness has always existed in such a pure form, but it never really did. Just think about all the regional languages there are.
A long comment for your long post... Interested in seeing the sample test!
PS I would LOVE it if my students feared me and thought I was always right.
We should remember that citizenship doesn't automatically mean one is accepted into society. The problems go way beyond who does or doesn't have a passport. A lot of immigrants in France do have citizenship compared to immigrants in say, Germany, because laws are more lenient and dual citizenship is allowed. This doesn't mean that they are on an equal page with "native" Frenchmen (or even someone like you, Sam, who is not native but likely enjoys certain "invisible privileges" based on your skin color and background). Racial/ethnic tensions and discrimination still persist. In Germany, Turks with German passports are often called "Passdeutsche" (Germans by passport, not by blood/ethnicity). Whether or not an immigrant has citizenship is certainly crucial for mobilization, but equally important are the steps societies take to make sure immigrants are fully integrated, like you mention Sam. However I would argue that France, which doesn't allow data to be collected on race, ethnicity, or religion, under the premise of strict secularism or laïcité(and the deluded idea of a "color blind" society where everyone is equal) is missing this crucial point. Without national or institutionalized recognition of difference, policymakers are prevented from addressing the main issues hindering immigrant integration, namely social and economic inequality and marginalization.
p.s. In full disclosure, I am part of your mom's group in the sense that I have a German passport thanks to a German parent although I was born and grew up in the States. Though I've maintained strong ties, learned the language, and am currently living in Germany for the 3rd time, I see your point. Mostly, I find it hypocritical that certain EU countries allow the jus sanguinis (bloodline) citizenship when they often make it impossible or extremely difficult for those who have grown up in the country but have different ethnic roots to obtain the same document.
Making people have a "decent level of French" or knowledge of history before they get French nationality means that it excludes many people, e.g. those who have come to France to rejoin family members or people who initially came as asylum seekers/ refugees. Cuurently, the British government is trying to stop people coming to the UK unless they have a certain level of English. And this discriminates against "non white immigrants" (especially people from Asia, Africa) but not against Americans, Australians, or even well educated Europeans. Making people take tests and the like can sometimes be covert racism.
"I find it hypocritical that certain EU countries allow the jus sanguinis (bloodline) citizenship when they often make it impossible or extremely difficult for those who have grown up in the country but have different ethnic roots to obtain the same document."
Totally agree! This is my main problem with certain immigration laws. It can be so incredibly easy to get citizenship in a country that you basically have no connection to simply because someone in your family (that you may or may not ever talk to/interact with) also had that nationality, regardless of whether you actually speak their language or know anything about the country. And yet people who do speak the language and know everything about the culture and history cannot get citizenship because of the nationality they were born into, or the color of their skin, or any other factor that the person has absolutely no control over.
And just like Sally said, a lot of countries use immigration laws as ways of keeping certain people out. It really is racism in disguise. Australia even had a white immigrant policy until the 1970s! But of course, it was simply called Immigration Restriction to cover up the fact that they were being blatantly racist. Luckily they overturned it and now welcome all nationalities to come here, and Australia has become the most multicultural country in the world.
I actually don't think the changes to France's immigration policy are all that bad (knowledge of language and history are always good, but how many French citizens born in France know the answers to that test or can even spell French words properly!) - except the one about not being able to claim any other citizenship while within French borders. They can't outright deny dual citizenship but they can claim that your other citizenship is not valid while you are in France, which is a tiny bit scary if you think about it.
However, the fact that the immigration changes are being made to pander to the far right and get more votes from the racists is what I have a huge problem with. The government is making it much harder to immigrate legally but doing nothing to stop illegal immigration, all in hopes of re-electing Sarkozy. Foreigners who abide by the law are the only ones losing out.
always like your frenchie posts, thanks for this.
always like your frenchie posts, thanks for this.
As a Black woman who is due for her final citizenship interview tomorrow morning at 10:30AM, I take issue with your over-simplification of immigration issues. I need to chime in on a few things:
1.I take issue with the nonsensical mythology that “French culture is stable/constant, never-changing thing that must be protected” perpetuated by the right-wing racists. It creates a racially motivated “us against them” dynamic in the country. If this line of thinking continues, it will indeed tear this country apart.
2. Let’s not side-step the issue here: Your kids and my kids will both be “French”, but if the current racist ideology continues in this country, my kids will be considered not quite as “French” simply because their skin will be darker. Ugly, but dead accurate.
3. French culture isn’t being Americanized or diluted--- It’s being transformed, just like every other culture. Trying to stop this progression is about as useful as being mad at gravity. This evolution can't be stopped, nor should it be.
4. “And yes, that cultural diversity is also one of the great things about our country, but France's strong identity also makes France what it is, and I support their efforts to not dilute it.”
Your own words are one big contradiction. Are you for cultural diversity or do you think we all need to assimilate? Even your own attempts to over-simply weren’t so successful. So perhaps there is a middle-ground?
5. Question: What does being “French” mean to YOU? And if my particular answer doesn’t match yours, does that mean I am/will be any less “French” than you?
6. Let’s be real here: Those young kids setting cars on fire and rioting out in the banlieues of Paris are constantly getting blamed for not being "French" enough, but they likely know more about what it means to be French than you and I ever will.
Will the history test replace the CDI "requirement"? Lol. I know more about French cultural law and history than everyone else in my masters, and they're the ones with jobs because their uncle is the adjoint maire of wherever. Sigh.
I have always agreed the language requirement simply because it is in the constitution here, as opposed to the states. My entire PUBLIC elementary education was in French, I'm not sure where that'd be possible here.
If their main concern with immigration is integration though, I do see why a history test was never implemented until now. What matters is what you're doing (or not doing) now.
Everyone loves to jokingly ask how many Americans could actually pass the citizenship test. It's a choice to ask for nationality, and the reasons for it are very personal and complicated. While I do think that a country has every right to implement whatever rules they want, it never seems like personal motivation is ever a large consideration in any country. While it's simpler for the government to just say yes or no based on a checklist, to really "deserve" it means something different to everyone.
An insightful post KSam. I recently saw a very nice docu called "Muslims of France" on Al Jazeera which nicely portrayed the situation in three parts (pre WW2, post WW2, and now). Unfortunately Al-J seems to themselves have taken it down now.
cheers, and keep up the good blogging :) -A
I'm going to apply for citizenship after my 4th year of marriage next year. I'll have a lot of proof of my commitment to France, namely my integration into society by working/paying taxes/having my baby, basically everything France expects a good citizen to do (and basically everything you agree to do when you get married in France!) but what they focus the most on is the marriage. I had a lot of proof of my commitment to France to get my 10-year CDS but even then it wasn't a sure deal. I think that is the issue here, not the protection of the French langauge/French culture/etc. I consider myself (or Andromeda, the other bloggers, etc) as much of a threat to French culture as you are (which means not a threat at all..)because we're all looking to do the same thing here: make our lives, do a job we enjoy, have a beautiful family, enjoy the culture and the language, etc. I think getting citizenship is something that we should all celebrate for each other since we've all been in each other's place. Other Americans are just trying to do the exact same thing you did in the hope of one day reaching the same level of comfort you've achieved, Sam.
I agree with you on the language/history/whatever tests which isn't the issue. The issue is when a perfectly good candidate gets snubbed on a technicality. If it were you in their place a few years ago when you were going for your citizenship, how would you feel? And did you get your citizenship based on your PACS, or on a CDI? I was sure you got it once you were already living in Paris so it must have been for your job because you have to be able to prove a long line of "vie commune" when you get citizenship through marriage (and i'd assume PACS but I've never been PACS'd so I don't know). Hypothetically, if you and your partner were already separated and you'd been trying to get citizenship like that, somebody could have seen that "rupture" in your "vie commune" and used it to keep you from your citizenship, meaning everything you worked for here would have been over. For those of us who rely on our marriage/pacs/etc for citizenship, it's kind of a shame because we should be able to get it based on things like having a job, community contribution, contributing to society in other ways, our potential, etc. and not based on who we are or aren't living with/sharing a life with.
This is such an interesting post. Italy is struggling with similar integration issues but has no integration plan the way France did. I look forward to more posts about this!This comment has been removed by the author.
I agree that you should have notions of the main events in France's history ie: the kings, the revolution, the 5 republics, and things like that, but I just hope that the history test doesn't resemble a concours with obscure details that no person can know without a master's degree. Things like 'of these 4 painters, which one is the odd one out.' should not be allowed in a citizenship test because it's not the history of the country. In the same way that questions like "on what day of the Waterloo campaign did Bonaparte have porridge for breakfast?" may have a horrible way of sneaking into the test. I have horrible mental images of the citizenship test being full of questions like that.
I really enjoyed your explanation of the different ways the US and France treat their immigrants. It would be nice if the US was more concerned with integrating people into society and making sure they spoke English (because as an american in France struggling to speak French, I know how much not speaking the language excludes someone) and it would be nice if France was more tolerant and not so rigid.
Basically, like most things, I wish I could take the parts I like about the US and the parts I like about France and combine them. But then I wouldn't be living in the US or France, it would be a whole different country.
This is an article about how difficult the French are on their students: http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2012/02/03/prepas-l-excellence-au-prix-fort_1637985_
and this is the article with teachers responding to the criticism
